Dive site management on daily build

Dirk Hohndel dirk at hohndel.org
Wed Jun 10 08:07:05 PDT 2015

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 04:49:21PM +0200, Davide DB wrote:
> > > In both cases as I download GPS data, my map is populated by 147
> > > "autocreated dive" locations :(
> >
> > Those should disappear the moment the globe is refreshed. But you are
> > right, I should prevent them from ever showing up as they are just
> > confusing.
> Previous 147 markers were all my gps data uploaded on the web service
> since I use Subsurface.
> On my test they are not removed. In case #2 after moving the globe
> looking for the location I found both the location name I set and
> "autocreated dive 148".

They would have disappeared had you changed dives.
For a few versions Subsurface unfortunately saved every second one of them
to your dive file (bug in the algorithm that removed them - fixed).
And as you noticed, Subsurface showed them all (also fixed in latest

> > You absolutely can have dives without dive site.
> > You, personally, may think that's unreasonable. But I don't see any reason
> > why we should force someone who downloads dives from a dive computer to
> > assign a site to each of them.
> > > From what I understand if I want to give a name to a new dive I'm forced to use the dive site management.
> > "give a name to a new dive" - you mean set the location?
> Sorry if I'm not able to explain myself.

No problem. I'm asking to clarify so I understand what you are looking
for. Neither of us is a native English speaker...

> On the previous version (we can call it V2) I download some dives and
> by default they have "no name" aka non location text set.
> I can even set locations on the map without naming them....
> Of course I can save them and keep storing my dives without location
> text field set but, what's the meaning?

I actually have been sent a lot of dive files by users over time - because
they wanted me to reproduce bugs. I went back and looked at some of them.
A surprising number had many dives with no location set.

Would I do that for MY files?
Heck no.
Do I want to enforce that a user HAS to set a location / dive site?
I see no reason why.

> In the V3 current version I download some dives and by default they
> have no location set. They are completely blank because right now ALL
> data about location are under the dive site management: Location name,
> gps data are all part od the dive site management so again what's the
> meaning  working with a pile of unknown dives (no name no location). I
> understand that the software is capable of but it seems just a gimmick
> to me.

So what you perceive as a gimmick is that you now can't just set a "name"
for the dive, you have to go into the dive site management screen to do
so? Is that your concern?
Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake. I need more coffee :-)

> > A dive site without a dive is a more interesting question. On the surface
> > this doesn't make sense. But I could see someone enter the details of a
> > site that they want to dive at before a trip so that they can assign it to
> > a dive once they made it. So they might want to be able to store the data
> > file with the "orphan" dive site in the mean time.
> I agree with you and Robert on this.

OK. Thanks.

> > The taxonomy is something that is partially implemented in the background.
> > It's of course related to the dive site management, but I don't know how
> > it plays into the questions that you have here.
> >
> > What is your issue with dives without sites and sites without dive?
> > Besides believing that in your personal workflow they wouldn't show up, I
> > think I'm missing the bigger issue you are trying to raise.
> >
> > Are you worried about clutter in your dive file? About inconsistencies?
> My concern is that I tried to play with this V3 version and I was not
> able to works comfortably with it without your indications.

Yes, the UI is still rough and needs become more intuitive. If I
understood your concern above correctly then yes, we absolutely need an
easy way to "just give a name" to a dive site for people who don't care
about GPS locations and all that - and to make the workflow easier

> This morning I let my two dive buddies play a bit with it (they both
> use Subsurface on Win and Mac). No one of them understood how to work
> with it. I understand that it's an early version and my friends are a
> bit computer illiterate but I think it's a sign of something that the
> average joe out there will face soon.

YES. Thanks for doing that. This is exactly what we need. Feedback from
divers who don't spend all day writing the code and implementing the

> The first approach was to use the location dropdown to browse dives.
> We were never sure if we were editing a dive setting a location or
> just browsing dives. They though to browse divesites but they were
> actually changing location to a dive site...
> Marble globe sometimes bolt at the minimum zoom and sometime loses the
> location point.  I was not able to record a reproducible sequence.
> From there a nightmare :)


> I haven't a clear vision on current design but maybe:
> #1 Location dropdown should become a label.

a label that is editable, I assume?

> #2 The plus sign should always be "edit" even if you can have dives
> without dive site. Once you edit, the new panel will have the current
> dropdown to choose from or you can add a new dive site.

So let's see:
- location editbox/label is empty, user picks edit
  we switch to dive site management with empty fields, there is a drop
  down there in which user can pick a dive site and a "pick for dive"
  button or the user can fill out the data she wishes to fill out for that
  dive (including a name) and "save divesite" and this is picked for the
  current dive as well
- location editbox/label has a name in it, user picks edit
  if this is an existing dive site name, we show the data for that site
  if not, we show an otherwise empty dive site template with the name
  Just like in the previous case the user can pick a different site for
  the current dive or make changes and save the divesite

If the user just added a location name, never went to the dive site edit
screen and then saves the dive (so Apply changes in the Notes tab) then we
look at the name - if it's a known dive site name we pick that one (no
idea what to do if there are multiple dive sites with the same name...),
if it's not we simply create a dive site with that name and no additional
information and use the uuid of that dive site for the dive we just
finished editing.

Does that all seem reasonable? What am I missing?

> #3 The main menu "manage dive siteS" is a dedicated view only for all
> dive sites. It should have a design which clearly show that I'm not
> working with dives (e.g. no profile view).

Yes, there should be no profile. This was supposed to show pictures of the
dive site but I forgot to ask Tomaz to change that.

> It doesn't edit a dive site
> by default but only explicitly. From there in the future I should have
> all the tools to manage dive sites in my logbook like edit, find
> duplicates, merge, etc...(something like the google contacts app).

That may be past 4.5
But there you would also be able to edit the taxonomy, etc.

> For the future:
> I tried with their logbooks. My logbook is quite a mess and so their
> logbook. These files were created importing dives from several logbook
> software. There are a lot of dives with partial data, maybe some
> error. Once migrated it's impossible to correct problems. I know that
> it's an early version but we should foresee some tool to correct
> errors and duplicates.


> Comparing my V2 and my V3 files I discovered a lot of of errors in my
> old logbook.
> I have several duplicates because:
> I had several dives in the same place. Same name but some of them with
> gps data, some not.
> I had several dives in the same place, same name but slightly
> different gps points (I mean I used the companion app several times in
> the same spot)

I have that same situation in my data

> I discovered that a row of 8 training dives, the same day in the same
> place, have slightly different gps points because the boat moved on
> the anchor and now I have 7 different dive sites.
> Right now I'm not sure how laymen will solve these problems once migrated.

I have no good idea how to do that, either.

> In closing it's a shame nearly nobody participate to this discussion.
> I would like to read that I was the only one having all these
> usability problems.

That's one of my biggest disappointments. We have more than 200 people on
this mailing list. And we have fewer than a dozen who actually participate
in discussions on the design, the use case, the usability.


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