Extra Data tab in desktopversion

Peter Zaal peter.zaal at gmail.com
Sun Apr 14 08:56:47 PDT 2019

Hi Willem, Dirk,

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 4:23 PM Dirk Hohndel <dirk at hohndel.org> wrote:

> Hi Willem,
> > On Apr 14, 2019, at 12:36 AM, Willem Ferguson <
> willemferguson at zoology.up.ac.za> wrote:
> >
> > This discussion continues the topic of including an editable atmospheric
> pressure textbox in the Notes Tab. The discussion then revolved around
> moving some of the data items to a different tab.
> >
> > I have five proposals.
> >
> > 1) Any extraneous information is moved to the existing Extra Info tab.
> For many (if not most) recreational dive computers this tab is not used.
> So, if any information is to be moved out of the Notes Tab an additional
> new tab is probably not warranted. However, this means that there would now
> be a third tab that contains editable data fields (apart from Notes and
> Equipment).
> This does change the notion of the Extra data tab a little bit, but the
> way this is defined today maybe only makes sense if you wrote the code -
> from a users perspective this distinction (basically, this tab shows the
> information we get as string data from the dive computer) is maybe less
> obvious - I guess it could be defined as dive computer internals or
> something.
> But let me ask you, why add it to that tab and not use the Information
> tab? This one already contains another (mislabeled, I notice) field that
> some people might want to edit: dive time (which should be dive duration).
> And it contains the atmospheric pressure. So instead of adding this to
> Extra info tab, wouldn't it make more sense to make some of the fields on
> the Info tab editable? I don't think it makes sense to allow users to edit
> things like the Interval or CNS / OTU, but I could see editing duration,
> air pressure (atmospheric pressure would be a better label, but air
> pressure is shorter), water type (specific weight, really) and air
> temperature (oops, that's not in sync with the Notes tab for me) here?
> Thoughts?

Imho I would indeed not add yet another tab. I fully agree on using the
Information tab to edit some of the data. Although most information is
display-only and/or calculated information, some of the information could
be editable.  (actually I am not sure about CNS and OTU, are these
calculated or imported from the dive computer? But anyway probably not
something you want to edit)

> > 2) If the above were true, the UI would be simplified if the tabs with
> editable data fields were grouped together. That would mean rearranging the
> tabs so that Extra Info is in the third position just after Equipment.
> That's the position the Information tab is already in, another advantage
> of my proposal.

Yes, although one could look at (re)arranging the information, so that
there's a group of display-only and a group of editable information.

> 3) I suggest that the two temperature text boxes are moved to the Extra
> Info tab. The water temperature is depicted in great detail on the dive
> profile, so no information is lost.
> They are both already on the Information tab - except, as I said, Air
> temperature is not in sync for me. Need to look at the code why that is.

Yes could be editable on the Information tab.
For me personally, I would actually regret to see the temperatures moving
away from the Notes tab. I mean, on a dive site the most frequent asked
questions I hear are usually: what did you see, how was visibility, and
what's the water temperature? Also on recreational dives, which are
problably the most logged dives, the temperature is often displayed on the
main screen of the dive computer. It seems like temperature is seen as one
the more eminent dive characteristics.
I always like to keep note of the air temp myself, because it's nice to
compare over longer period of time (years even) for a dive site, so for me
I like it that it's on the main Notes tab.

Btw, Air temp is in sync with my: editing this on the Notes tab displays
the same value on the Information tab.

> > 4) I expressed an opinion beforehand that any information that affects
> the deco ceiling should be immediately visible. One of these is the dive
> mode. When logging a dive, I often found that Subsurface defaults to a
> wrong dive mode. My Petrel does not provide the information, therefore this
> has to be set by hand using the Dive Mode dropdown box. No fault of
> Subsurface. Therefore my strong preference is for the Dive Mode dropdown
> box to be kept on the Notes tab and not moved to the Extra Info tab. If
> indeed, the Dive Mode dropdown box is moved to the Extra Info tab, I would
> expect (almost 'demand') a clear indication on the dive profile that shows
> the dive mode. (Maybe as part of the deco model info e.g. "VPM-B +3  (Open
> Circuit)" or "GF 40/75 (CCR)").
> I like showing this as part of the deco model info.
> And I think the majority of our users are OC-only divers. So we COULD move
> this to be only on the Information tab to de-clutter the Notes tab. But
> then, I don't see this as a requirement since if we do that the tags entry
> gets quite long...
> On the flip side - for me the notes field is always too small... so moving
> tags up to be on the same line with date and time (where right now we have
> air and water temp) and have air temp, water temp, and dive mode all on the
> Information tab... that I could easily get behind :-)

If you're meaning added the dive mode to the title on the dive profile,
yes. But don't add it to the Deco model field on the Extra Info tab. Simply
because it's not deco model/algorithm info.
If it must be moved away from the Notes tab, then it should be (editable)
on the Information tab.
I personally like the dive mode to be on the main Notes tab, since I dive
both OC and CC and like to see quickly what I dived (so that could also be
in the title). But I can see that I'm in minority here. I that respect, I
would love to see the dive mode to be selectable to display in the dive
list (I know you hate that Dirk ;)

> > 5) I propose that the Atmospheric pressure datum remains on the Notes
> tab and is not moved to the Extra Info tab. The reason is that, for inland
> dives, this is likely to be crucial information with respect to the deco
> ceiling. I regard this information as so important that, if this datum was
> indeed moved to the Extra Info tab, that it should also be indicated
> somewhere on the dive profile or on the Notes tab. I must confess that I am
> probably biased because I do many inland dives over 1000m. For me this
> would not make a difference because my dive computer records atmospheric
> pressure in calculating deco. But many other divers that dive these same
> sites do not have access to atmospheric pressure and without having done
> Dive-at-altitude training and I have seen what altitude can do to the deco
> ceiling. Therefore my emphasis on this matter.

I understand your emphasis, but probalby most dives of the users are around
sea water level / atmospheric pressure. I did some Altitude specialty a
long time ago, but besides these dives I have never cared much for the
atmospheric pressure. If you really want this on the Notes tab one other
suggestion could be to reduce the space for the Tags and have the extra
field on that row.

> Well, we don't have that on the Notes tab right now. Alternatively to my
> proposal, this could of course be put in the place of the air temperature.
> Unsurprisingly I like my proposal better, but let's see what others think.
> To make it clearer, I suggest we have the Notes tab only show
> Date   Time   Tags
> Location
> Divemaster Buddy
> Rating Viz Suit
> Notes
> And that we add the dive mode to the Information tab and make some of the
> values there editable.

Well.. I usually have something like 6-10 lines of notes, so the current
notes field is more than sufficient for me.. I am perfectly happy with the
Notes tab as it is. On the other hand, it seems weird that some information
is on both the Notes and the Information tab, so that could use some

> I could implement any of the above changes without too much problems if
> one of the Qt experts is prepared to verify my code afterwards. However,
> this is the sort of matter that needs some form of broad consensus before
> starting with the changes, otherwise a lot of time can be wasted in
> rewriting code.
> Completely agreed.
> /D
Agreed and although I expressed some personal opinions, I think it should
be what works best for most of the users.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/pipermail/subsurface/attachments/20190414/fb4d1681/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the subsurface mailing list