<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>No, we will not include TeX or assume that is installed. I see the technical benefit, it's completely unrealistic as print backend for a dive log app</div><div><br></div><div>/D<br><br>Sent from my phone </div><div><br>On Mar 4, 2015, at 3:39 AM, Robert Helling <<a href="mailto:helling@atdotde.de">helling@atdotde.de</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8">Hi,<div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 03.03.2015, at 13:05, Lubomir I. Ivanov <<a href="mailto:neolit123@gmail.com" class="">neolit123@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">i think, before you start writing the proposal users should provide</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">feedback on what level of customization they want from the print</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">layouting.</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Davide, Robert - any ideas?</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div><div class="">I think my old comments still apply: Typesetting is a highly non-trivial task (in particular if your expectations are more than basic), even decent line breaks are not easy to get let alone more complex formatting tasks. I think it would be foolish to attempt to set it up from scratch. Even without templates/user definable layout we currently fail miserable in this task. To my mind, we need to rely on external tools (library or program) to produce decent output on a printer. Setting things up by putting text in some rectangles will not do. For similar reasons, I don’t think html is the way to go since it is designed to render on screens rather than sheets of paper. You only need to look at the current gymnastics we do not to run over the bottom of the sheet. To me, doing proper typesetting is the hard part, making this configurable (for example with templates) is then secondary.</div><br class="">One way to go would be to pipe into LibreOffice writer (to use other open source software) and rely on it’s abilities to turn strings of characters and tables into decent pdf. But I don’t think this is very elegant (and it will without doubt be painful).<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would like to argue once more to use TeX as the typesetting engine (I have done so in the past).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There is one obvious downside of this: Joe Average User (probably everybody outside academia) does not have TeX installed and with all its fonts and utilities it is a huge software package. And this is why this proposal was turned down in the past.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But please, let me one last time argue its pros:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">o) Even though it is not installed, it is not that hard to install. Packages exists essentially for all platforms, it is just one dependency (for pdftex) on any Linux package manager, there are ready to install (single click) packages for Windows and Mac. And is probably the prime example of stability: Since the mid-1980s every TeX source as produced exactly the same output only any platform. Version problems are nonexistent (thanks to the stubbornness of Don Knuth).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">o) As it is an external program, we don’t need to force it on users. Only those users who want to use subsurface to produce prime quality paper logbook pages would need to install it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">o) Typesetting quality is second to none (as a lot of research has gone into it)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">o) Its input is very simple, in that respect it is similar to html (ascii as input format).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">o) As such it is trivial to use with any templating solution. In fact, since it is a macro language, it already comes with this.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">To illustrate, I attached a patch that adds a simple prototype of TeX-printing to current master (I actually use this to produce my paper log from subsurface). </div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><texexport.txt></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It does nothing unless you have “pdftex” in your path. If you do, it adds one point to the dive-list context menu, which typesets the current dive into a pdf. All layout is done in logbookstyle.tex which plays the role of a template. All subsurface has to do is to output a file dive.tex that in my case contains just</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\date{2014-11-15}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\number{476}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\place{Allmanshausen, Badeplatz}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\spot{}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\country{}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\entrance{}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\time{44:00}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\depth{30.7m}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\gasuse{}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\sac{16.7 l/min}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\type{}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\viz{3}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\plot{\includegraphics[width=9cm,height=4cm]{profile}}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\comment{Vytec Batterie nicht richtig eingesetzt, zwei Weihnachtsmänner, riesiger Barschschwarm beim Auftauchen (11m), trotz Terminverpeilung durfte ich mittauchen. Wassereinbruch oben am Reissverschluss, hervorgerufen durch fehlerhafte Klebung.}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\def\buddy{Gernot, Hanah Ewa}</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">\input logbookstyle</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">to produce </div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><dive.pdf></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div class="">.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Yes, it’s huge, but I doubt you will get anything with comparable output quality at a much lighter weight.</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="">Best</div><div class="">Robert</div><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">-- <br class="">.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oO<br class="">Robert C. Helling Elite Master Course Theoretical and Mathematical Physics<br class=""> Scientific Coordinator<br class=""> Ludwig Maximilians Universitaet Muenchen, Dept. Physik<br class=""> Phone: +49 89 2180-4523 Theresienstr. 39, rm. B339<br class=""> <a href="http://www.atdotde.de" class="">http://www.atdotde.de</a></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Enhance your privacy, use cryptography! My PGP keys have fingerprints</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">A9D1 A01D 13A5 31FA 6515 BB44 0820 367C 36BC 0C1D and</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">DCED 37B6 251C 7861 270D 5613 95C7 9D32 9A8D 9B8F</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>subsurface mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org">subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface">http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>