<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 7 February 2017 at 18:47, Robert Helling <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:helling@atdotde.de" target="_blank">helling@atdotde.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi,<span class=""><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 06 Feb 2017, at 19:30, Robert Helling <<a href="mailto:helling@atdotde.de" target="_blank">helling@atdotde.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_2187045008980661366Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">a no progress report: I guessed it’s the max_ambient_pressure but now I know, it is not. Tonight, I will not have further time to look into this (we have visitors), so if someone else wants to give it a try: There are a few other state variables of VPM-B, all defined as global variables in deco.c. I would next try max_crushing pressure (by resetting this between dives and see if this makes the deco almost independent of the day. In Buehlmann, one can see, that the difference in saturation is only minimal).</div><br class="m_2187045008980661366Apple-interchange-newline"></div></blockquote></div><br></div></span><div>I think I understand this now. This is a „feature“ of the VPM-B model. (For some background on this model see <a href="http://euve10195.vserver.de/wp/?p=27" target="_blank">http://euve10195.vserver.de/<wbr>wp/?p=27</a> or the German version <a href="http://euve10195.vserver.de/wp/?p=46" target="_blank">http://euve10195.<wbr>vserver.de/wp/?p=46</a>)</div><div><br></div><div>One of the state variables of this model is the „crushing radius“ (here r_reg) defined by </div><div style="margin:0px 0px 1.714285714rem;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:14px;vertical-align:baseline;line-height:1.714285714;color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:'Open Sans',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br class="m_2187045008980661366webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="m_2187045008980661366MathJax_Display" style="margin:1em 0em;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:14px;vertical-align:baseline;text-align:center;max-width:none;max-height:none;min-width:0px;min-height:0px;width:624.984375px"><span class="m_2187045008980661366MathJax" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Element-25-Frame" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;vertical-align:baseline;display:inline;line-height:normal;word-spacing:normal;word-wrap:normal;white-space:nowrap;float:none;direction:ltr;max-width:none;max-height:none;min-width:0px;min-height:0px"><u></u><span class="m_2187045008980661366math" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-256" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:14.922em"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:12.042em;height:0px"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mrow" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-257" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mfrac" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-258" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span style="margin:0px 0.118em;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:3.69em;height:0px"><span style="padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mrow" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-259" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mn" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-260" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">2</span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mo" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-261" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">(</span><span class="m_2187045008980661366msubsup" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-262" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal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7.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">2</span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mo" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-287" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">(</span><span class="m_2187045008980661366msubsup" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-288" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0.809em;height:0px"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-289" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">γ<span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;height:1px;width:0.003em"></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-290" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">c</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span></span></span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mo" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-291" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 0.233em;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">−</span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-292" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 0.233em;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">γ<span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;height:1px;width:0.003em"></span></span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mo" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-293" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">)</span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span><span style="padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366msubsup" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-294" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:1.501em;height:0px"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-295" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">r<span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;height:1px;width:0.003em"></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366texatom" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-296" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mrow" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-297" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-298" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">c</span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-299" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">r<span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;height:1px;width:0.003em"></span></span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-300" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">i</span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-301" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">t<span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;height:1px;width:0.003em"></span></span></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-width:1.3px 0px 0px;border-top-style:solid;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0em;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;width:3.69em;height:0px"></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:1.097em"></span></span></span></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:2.48em"></span></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-width:0px;border-left-style:solid;vertical-align:-1.282em;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;width:0px;height:3.075em"></span></span><u></u></span></div><div>which enters the calculation of the allowed gradient (at least in the first iteration) as</div><div><br></div><div><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:'Open Sans',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:6.57em;height:0px"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mrow" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-221" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366msubsup" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-222" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:1.155em;height:0px"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mi" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-223" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Italic">G</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span class="m_2187045008980661366mn" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-224" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12.273520469665527px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">0</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span></span></span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mo" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-225" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 0.291em;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family: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order:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:3.978em"></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;line-height:normal"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-width:1.3px 0px 0px;border-top-style:solid;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0em;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;overflow:hidden;width:2.019em;height:0px"></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:1.097em"></span></span></span></span><span class="m_2187045008980661366mo" id="m_2187045008980661366MathJax-Span-246" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline;line-height:normal;font-family:STIXGeneral-Regular">.</span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:17.360000610351563px;vertical-align:0px;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;width:0px;height:2.48em"></span></span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-width:0px;border-left-style:solid;font-size:14px;vertical-align:-1.282em;display:inline-block;line-height:normal;color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:'Open Sans',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;overflow:hidden;width:0px;height:2.789em"></span></div><div><br></div><div>If you are doing repetitive diving, this is tracked between dives and since p_max (the maximal over pressure during the dives) enters the maximal depth encountered is relevant for the deco. Your first dive has a depth of 60m so it sets this variable also for the second dive which is only 40m. Thus, according to these formulas, it allows for a bigger gradient which means it is more liberal with respect to over pressure in the tissues which results in shorter deco.</div><div><br></div><div>And no, I don’t think this makes sense. But it is the model. It is not the first oddity of this model we come across. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That quirk is indeed odd.  I can see how it could have this unexpected effect, but are you sure that's the entire cause?  I found no change at all when the surface interval was in the range 10min to 47hr.  Surely there ought to be some variation with surface interval, even if the smaller "crushing radius" remains.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div><div>As far as Subsurface is concerned, I guess we should leave it as is (after all, people want „the real model“, if we would change the behaviour of Subsurface we would break with the original Baker code and people will hate us for this).</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for finding this out. Once I have a bit more time, I will write about this in my blog.</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Robert</div></font></span></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>