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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/01/2018 16:24, Robert Helling
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1C7A9CC4-9F3B-4338-828F-3EE9139CD34F@atdotde.de">
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Hi,
<div class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 2. Jan 2018, at 14:53, Stefan Fuchs <<a
href="mailto:sfuchs@gmx.de" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">sfuchs@gmx.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica;
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none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
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!important;" class="">I am personally interested in this
topic so I started to play with your patch and this is
my feedback:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">- +1 for implementing<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a
href="http://s.th/" style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">s.th</a><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">. regarding ICD / IBCD</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
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rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">- Ok with choosing this 5% rule of
thumbs from IANTD unless someone clearly shows us that
there is a MUCH better approach or e.g. a kind of
2nd/3rd/... limit we could consider additionally</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">- No real idea where else we could
put this code other than in the plannernotes.c</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Ok, this was the easy part, now
the more difficult items:</span><br style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">- I already expected people to
give negative feedback regarding cluttering the
UI/output - and I would have understood this.</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Always adding this additional
column in the dive plan table with some complex info
which is needed by almost nobody really doesn't look
that nice. So we need to look for a clever solution for
this. I already see a few options:</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">x Only show this column for Tx
dives (not too difficult but still it could happen that
s.o. want's NOT to see the info)</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">x Prefs option to switch it on/off
(yeah, also cluttering the UI)</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">x Don't print ICD info into
plan/table but only show it as a tool tip when hovering
over the gas in the plan (complex, maybe even not
possible)</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I also like the idea of displaying the info on ICD
(and I am happy to hear that there is some sort of limit that at
least some people agree on).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am not sure, the dive notes/written dive plan are
the best location for the display, though, in particular since
those notes are supposed to be printed on wet notes (and during
the dive this is not relevant information). Wouldn’t it be
better to make this an event in the profile or modify the gas
change event accordingly (including the percentage information
and maybe using a different icon if the change is above the
threshold)? </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">What do you think?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best</div>
<div class="">Robert</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Thank you, Stefan and Robert,</p>
<p>The current implementation only supplies the ICD information for OC dive plans that include trimix. I understand the argument about adding to the profile listing of the dive plan. What if one makes a separate paragraph at the bottom of the dive plan by adding a small HTML table? Something like:</p>
<p>
CNS: 78%
OTU: 164
Deco model: Bühlmann ZHL-16C with GFLow = 33% and GFHigh = 66%
ATM pressure: 899mbar (931m)
Isobaric counterdiffusion information
<b>Time Gas change </b><b>ΔN₂ </b><b>Max ΔN₂</b>
12:13 11/55 -> 21/42 3.0% 2.6%
<style type="text/css">
p, li { white-space: pre-wrap;</style>12:27 21/42 -> 33/31 3.0% 3.0%
12:38 33/31 -> EAN55 5.0% 5.8%
Gas consumption (based on SAC 21|15ℓ/min):
933ℓ/84bar of EAN55 (383ℓ/35bar in planned ascent)
2506ℓ/110bar of (11/55) (676ℓ/30bar in planned ascent)
— Minimum gas (based on 2.0xSAC/+1min@115m): 1864ℓ/79bar/Δ:+51bar
1200ℓ/105bar of EAN80 (1200ℓ/108bar in planned ascent)
— Warning: not enough reserve for gas sharing on ascent!
836ℓ/79bar of (21/42) (371ℓ/36bar in planned ascent)
683ℓ/62bar of (33/27) (683ℓ/65bar in planned ascent)
0ℓ/0bar of oxygen
I am not sure the alignment of this table will be ok in your mail browsers, but you will get the idea, I am sure. The table will only show for OC trimix dives. Having to hover over the profile to get the ICD information requires a lot of work for the user to get some very simple but critical information. My feeling is that the info, when relevant, should be immediately and prominently available. We have had some serious injuries by ignorant divers who dived to 80m with trimix and who then used air as a deco gas. Crazy. Therefore I regard the ICD info as critical.</p>
<p>I do not think one should go so far as to say "you are above the limit" and provide a YES or NO decision with respect to ICD. As with so many diving decisions, these are based on experience and track record, rather than hard scientific facts. My preference would be to show deltaN2 and Max_deltaN2 and allow the diver to make the decision of whether the differences in gas mixtures are within limits or not. (For instance the first change in the "table" above has deltaN2 of 3.0%, which is 0.4% more than Max_deltaN2. I *personally* would be happy with that difference, even though the difference is slightly larger than the maximal value of 2.6% because gas composition is also affected by gas mixes that allow accommodating failure of a deco gas during ascent, so there are competing factors that affect gas mixtures during the dive).
</p>
<p>Please comment on these ideas!</p>
<p>Kind regards,</p>
<p>willem</p>
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