<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">It looks like Mail.app on my Mac failed to attach the images. Here they are...<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="7CCFF25A-9B1A-4CBE-AB11-C309892C3A61" src="cid:28CBADCC-5DD8-44A2-99E2-C4AE7C38B859" class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="393EAE55-3949-4901-B3F9-B1BB7E5C140B" src="cid:E38C2022-B74C-4BC5-BD64-72778E1C1502" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 12, 2020, at 11:49 AM, Dirk Hohndel via subsurface <<a href="mailto:subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org" class="">subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Willem,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks for responding... I wish more people got involved into these conversations. But usually topics like this get two or three of the 300+ people here to respond. And then ten more will complain after we have done the next release and they notice for the first time that we added a feature...<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 12, 2020, at 12:59 AM, Willem Ferguson <<a href="mailto:willemferguson@zoology.up.ac.za" class="">willemferguson@zoology.up.ac.za</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">I understand Berthold's request with respect to temporal
sequences. When developing such a temporal facility there is an
important caveat. Emphatically, such temporal representations do
not provide any clear *explanation* of anything: it is just a
temporal pattern. For instance a decrease in SAC rate over time
does not necessarily imply any improvement in physiological
ability but may reflect adoption of new equipment or change in
dive sites. Any explanation of a temporal trend is dependent on
the understanding of the USER, not on the SOFTWARE. So, when
dealing with temporal trends, one needs to consider carefully the
intended type of use of it. I think Berthold is more concerned
with continuous variables such as temperature, SAC, dive duration,
depth, etc which could probably be reasonably easily implemented.
To represent categorical variables such as tags, dive mode, people
and suit (one could even add dive site) is a totally different
issue requiring a totally different type of visual representation.
</p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I was in complete agreement until the very last sentence. I don't understand why this 'per se' requires a "totally different type of visual representation".</div><div class="">Let's say I am charting SAC over my criteria. Let's assume I'm using box and whiskers charts to easily show the quartiles. The values on x-axis have implications for the interpretation, of course, but whether the x-axis is months of the year, the suit worn, the maximum depth of the dive, the tags present on the dive (e.g., teaching dive or non-teaching dive) has absolutely no impact on how this should be visually represented...</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">It would help, in this discussion, if one were to distinguish
between the filtering aspect and the statistics display aspect and
state that with respect to the argument. In Dirk's artwork above,
I am not sure how the constraints will be used. Are we talking of
the filtering process or the stats display mechanism? Let's say
"Suit" is a constraint and two dates are provided. I am not sure
what the expected result of the operation would be. Ahh, the
problems of communication.<br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What I was trying to describe was a way to create criteria that can be used for columns in the visualization. You go through this filter process, name the result, and that name becomes one of the available labels over which you can chart the values.</div><div class="">Again, as I said before, I may simply be over-engineering this.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">
<br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="">In general, in my opinion, the existing filter layout is a good
starting point (I would add the variables of dive depth and dive
duration because they are the two variables that fundamentally
define a dive). As a filtering mechanism the current
implementation is ultra-flexible.</p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>While I respect your opinion, let me politely state that personally I believe that the current filter widget is a disaster and extremely unintuitive to use. That's not a criticism of the original author, nor of the people who have added to it - but yeah, that thing is a mess.</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">As far as UI for filter sets are concerned the minimum component
count would include: Combobox of existing named filters within the
set. Button: add current filter to filter set. These could
potentially reside at the top right of the current filter panel.
But there might be a need to give filter set a name as well. That
would need a text box.<br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Making the current widget more convoluted and more confusing was not a direction that I was envisioning us to go.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Maybe we need to rain in the crazy German and go back to something much more basic. Something like ten predefined sets of criteria. And only apply them to the filtered dive list.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So.</div><div class="">(1) per month</div><div class="">(2) per year</div><div class="">(3) per trip</div><div class="">(4) by max depth in 10m increments</div><div class="">(5) by duration in 10min increments</div><div class="">(6) by min temperature in 10F / 5C increments</div><div class="">(7) by type (for people who track more than SCUBA)</div><div class="">(8) by suit (that's likely a fairly small set for most people)</div><div class="">(9) by tags (that one I'm unclear about - would likely need some more ability to influence how this is drawn - but straight forward would be to draw them in pairs of two, left one represents with the tag, right one without the tag)</div><div class="">(10) by people? (no idea how / why)</div><div class=""><div class="">(11) by full text? (no idea how / why)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If we drop the last three this seems fairly obvious how to do.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Next comes the question of visualization. That might depend on the data (so the columns of the yearly statistics). At first glance I thought that box and whiskers charts might be useful, or more simplified min / avg / max charts (so floating bar with a circle for the average)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><img src="https://i.stack.imgur.com/oVDLR.png" alt="the 'candlesticks' plot" class=""><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/p-DbBBZEQJR6LpDHzpm5lqxpBTmg1KJtrlb9_lnClsXY0tj4a1Lsi5iMyywTfgItp_QFjEW4FPnPWA3jrEa56ftjXB8Ap2N9FHt_zM7S7bbe7it0FfRLbXE9p1sJSUhfIwU1" alt="Make an Avg-Max-Min Chart in Microsoft Excel" class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Are there any columns that couldn't be visualized with that?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">/D</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">subsurface mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org" class="">subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org</a><br class="">http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>